Carb Back-loading

[Gjest Jester]

Jeg har hørt og lest endel om carb back-loading den siste tiden, og strengt tatt lyst å prøve. Ser også at det stemmer godt overens med det jeg i allefall vet om biorytmedietten. Altså i grove trekk går det ut på mye av det samme, men med litt forskjellig måte og løse problemet.

Noen som har noen tanker rundt dette? Evt erfaringer eller innspill? Vegard Lysne

Personlig bet jeg meg veldig fast i det avsnittet som tok for seg følgende:

Carbs can be one of the strongest disruptions of homeostatis, so if meal timing isn’t exact come workout time (along with a myriad of other factors) not only is the body fighting against the iron, but it’s fighting to achieve balance. Carb timing—or mistiming—may be the most common cause of a crappy workout and missed lifts.

Too many grams of carbs may be consumed too close to training time, causing a hyperglycaemic state in which nervous system cells begin firing inefficiently, blowing through calcium reserves. Too few carbs and glycaemic distress occurs, sweat starts pouring despite chills and strength dissipates. As a result, assuming glycogen stores were sufficiently replenished the night before, strength often increases and stabilizes—is more consistent from day to day—when forgoing carbs before lifting.

Dette kjenner jeg meg veldig igjen i, f.eks når jeg trener tidlig på dagen så har jeg veldig dårlig matlyst, så når det er treningstid får jeg litt panikk for at jeg ikke har spist nok så jeg kaster i meg karbs, gjerne tett opp mot trening og får dårlige økter. MEN jeg har trodd det var fordi at det var for tett opp mot treninga slik at kroppen ikke hadde tatt til seg næringa og ikke at nettopp måltidet i seg selv var problemet.

EFS Classic:Carb Back-loading

Carbs are a hot topic. Everyone’s eating them first thing in the morning, or cycling them, some people are going anabolic — having carbs just on the weekend — and still others are having just one Carb Nite® a week. But why isn’t anybody back-loading?

Not everyone’s concerned about their carbs, as some people eat them at-will without affecting strength, muscle mass or waistline. That’s not me. It’s not most of the people I work with. Like them, I want all the benefits carbs have to offer without the disadvantages; I want to get muscular and stay lean; or get muscular and get lean. That’s why I discovered back-loading, the best dietary method to achieve both at once.

One thing the industry has realized over the past few years is that carbs need to be cycled for goals beyond day-to-day leaving. Losing weight, building muscle and increasing endurance benefit from cycling carbs; making weight for a powerlifting meet benefits from cycling carbs; even trying to tighten up for wedding photos benefits from cycling carbs. For cosmetic purposes, the formula is well established, and my first book represents a precise and effective version.

Why all this fuss over carbs? Carbs cause hormonal and metabolic changes in the body beyond the capability of any other nutrient and if a pharmaceutical company discovered carbs today, glucose would probably cost $100 per gram. Eating carbs regulates growth in the body directly and indirectly by affecting over a dozen hormones. There is wisdom in spending so much time deciphering the perfect carb-intake formula for various goals.

The one formula that’s eluded the industry is how to gain muscle while minimizing fat, or even possibly losing fat. I’ve seen this claim many times in many magazines and on many websites for various workout and diet plans. Most fit under the philosophy of, “do ridiculous workouts that last hours and eat very little.” A couple noticeable exceptions exist: Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale’s Anabolic Diet and Shelby Starnes’ concept of carb cycling. Programs similar to these two exist (my Carb Nite® diet is a refined version of the Anabolic Diet), but all float the concept that carbs should be cycled on a day-to-day or weekly basis. Recent research contradicts these strategies for gaining muscle. The body needs two things everyday to grow muscle, a lot of calories and a lot of carbs.

I’ve eaten a lot of calories and a lot of carbs everyday while training and I did grow muscle, but I also got fat. The current school of nutrient timing says eat most of your carbs early in the day and few at night. So I switched to eating most of my carbs first thing in the morning and fewer with each meal until bedtime. Again, I gained muscle and got fat. At this point, I was frustrated as hell. It took me a few years to learn how exercise changes skeletal muscle at the cellular level and how to use this information to time carbohydrates during the day for muscular gains and fat obliteration.

Ingesting carbs—most types of carbs—releases insulin, the body’s utmost signaler of growth. Insulin sensitivity is highest in the morning and, as it’s often understood, this means that cells of the body absorb carbs better in the morning than the evening. Thought of in this way, only skeletal muscle and fat cells matter, as most other tissue—nervous system cells, kidneys, the liver, the small intestines, etc—can use carbs with or without insulin. Fat and muscle respond stronger to insulin levels in the morning than the evening.

It is true that eating carbs in the morning allows both fat and muscle to grow more than eating carbs at night. But exercise changes this. Exercise changes everything, even the way skeletal muscle responds to insulin and blood sugar. Resistance training triggers two important changes in muscle tissue regarding carb metabolism. First, heavy resistance training increases sensitivity to insulin in muscle for up to 48 hours post-workout. Second, for a few hours post-workout, muscle cells can use carbs without insulin.

Resistance training, therefore, dissects the day into pre- and post-workout, expanding these concepts from the hour before and after training to the part of the day before training and the part of the day after.

Imagine waiting until 3 or 4 in the evening to lift. Not eating carbs up to this point, neither fat nor muscle has had much of a signal to grow. After training, the consumption of carbs begins en masse, starting with the post-workout shake containing copious amounts of a simple carbohydrate powder. A massive growth signal ensues, but in the evening after lifting, only muscle can take advantage of the signal and not body fat. This effect continues on through the night until bedtime. No more back-fat growth; no more beer-belly expansion; no more second chin. Back-loading carbs in the day tunes the body to grow primarily muscle.

The pre-workout part of my day consists, for me, of ultra-low carb. I consume 30 grams or less of carbohydrates in the first half of the day, excluding fiber. Some people can handle more, and I’ve worked with people who can eat up to 100 grams spread over three to four meals before the training session. I am not one of these people, and before experimenting, I suggesting starting at the 30 gram level or less.

After training, the only meal I keep low-fat is my post-workout shake, which is zero fat. It contains 50 grams of protein, 100 grams of a glucose-based carb powder with no other caloric nutrients. Otherwise, the latter half of the day is filled with high-carb meals, but not necessarily low-fat. The sharp spike in metabolism that accompanies the rush of carbs helps burn the dietary fat through the hours of sleep.

If muscle gets the largest signal to grow after the workout, what’s happening before and during the workout without all the carbs? That’s a fair question. Without dietary modification, before lifting, the body balances the anabolic and catabolic signals within skeletal muscle. To shift this signal in favor of anabolic signaling requires regular ingestion of a fast-absorbing protein, such as whey or casein hydrolysate, together with a few grams of the branched-chain amino acid leucine.

During the workout, glycogen stores and ketone metabolism fuel muscles. As long as glycogen reserves stay full, there’s plenty of fuel for lifting without compromising muscle tissue. Keeping carb stores full is one of the primary goals of the post-workout feedings.

Back-loading carbs runs against every dietary recommendation to guarantee a solid, strong workout. The body needs carbs to lift heavy, or so the advice goes. In most situations, assuming adequate nightly carb intake, strength, nevertheless, increases when back-loading carbs. This may sound counter-intuitive but not when considering the drug-like effects of carbs.

Optimum strength is a balance between muscle size and neural efficiency. On a daily basis, muscular size can be taken as constant. Neural efficiency depends on several factors that are daily considerations and even hourly, such as the ingesting of carbs, which actually puts a stress on the body, knocking it from homeostatis.

Carbs can be one of the strongest disruptions of homeostatis, so if meal timing isn’t exact come workout time (along with a myriad of other factors) not only is the body fighting against the iron, but it’s fighting to achieve balance. Carb timing—or mistiming—may be the most common cause of a crappy workout and missed lifts.

Too many grams of carbs may be consumed too close to training time, causing a hyperglycaemic state in which nervous system cells begin firing inefficiently, blowing through calcium reserves. Too few carbs and glycaemic distress occurs, sweat starts pouring despite chills and strength dissipates. As a result, assuming glycogen stores were sufficiently replenished the night before, strength often increases and stabilizes—is more consistent from day to day—when forgoing carbs before lifting.

Granted, back-loading carbs requires effort. I have a flexible schedule, as do most of the athletes I work with, which makes planning the day around diet and workout feasible and necessary. Maximum gains require planning life around training. But it’s not always possible to get a training session in at 3 or 4 pm. Maybe training time is 7pm. Used with resistance training, no matter what time during the day, back-loading carbs always provides maximum anabolic signals to the muscle, while increasing fat burning, even if post-workout doesn’t occur until 9pm.

There’s a lot to consider and I understand not wanting to go through with all that’s required, but the payoff, for those who accept the challenge, is high. In the past two decades, after working with countless athletes at all levels, back-loading carbs is the only dietary technique I’ve seen that consistently produces strength and muscle gains while limiting—and sometimes even eliminating—body fat.

[Mette M]

Nå leste jeg bare brødteksten din, men min erfaring er den som JC Deen og Børge skisserer med tanke på carb back-loading og biorytme; Et lett måltid med protein og litt fett i passe tid før trening (min inneholder nok ofte også ca 10-20 g karbs pga kikerter), et middels stort måltid med kjøtt/protein, litt fett og litt karbs rett etter trening og deretter kun protein og karbs (havregrøt +++) utover kvelden. Dette gjør i allefall at jeg har masse energi hele dagen, ingen problemer med fordøyelsen under trening, osv Det ble også anbefalt å legge størsteparten av kaloriene til ettermiddag/kveld. Nå når jeg har fri spiser jeg typisk en frokost på 400-500 kcal, venter 1-2 timer, trener. Spiser så en større lunsj i 13-14-15-tiden, hvor karbkilden er grønnsaker og ris, har da igjen ca 1200 kcal til senere.

Kjører så på med grøt, cottage cheese, eventuelt mer kjøtt, utover kvelden. Pleier å slutte å spise rundt 20-21 når jeg legger meg +- kl 23

EDIT: Karbs, særlig i form av bakevarer, grøt o.l, tidlig på dagen/før trening, er noe av det dummeste jeg kan gjøre med tanke på energi. Blir veldig dvask og uopplagt av det. Egg og laks er en mye bedre frokost!

[Assie]

Har ikke så mye peiling på det, men har lest endel om det og syns det virker interessant som du gjør.

Hørte også Layne Norton snakke om det her om dagen, du kan høre det her:

Layne Norton Interview by PropaneFitness on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

[Gjest Jester]

[Gjest Jester]

Nå leste jeg bare brødteksten din, men min erfaring er den som JC Deen og Børge skisserer med tanke på carb back-loading og biorytme; Et lett måltid med protein og litt fett i passe tid før trening (min inneholder nok ofte også ca 10-20 g karbs pga kikerter), et middels stort måltid med kjøtt/protein, litt fett og litt karbs rett etter trening og deretter kun protein og karbs (havregrøt +++) utover kvelden. Dette gjør i allefall at jeg har masse energi hele dagen, ingen problemer med fordøyelsen under trening, osv Det ble også anbefalt å legge størsteparten av kaloriene til ettermiddag/kveld. Nå når jeg har fri spiser jeg typisk en frokost på 400-500 kcal, venter 1-2 timer, trener. Spiser så en større lunsj i 13-14-15-tiden, hvor karbkilden er grønnsaker og ris, har da igjen ca 1200 kcal til senere.

Kjører så på med grøt, cottage cheese, eventuelt mer kjøtt, utover kvelden. Pleier å slutte å spise rundt 20-21 når jeg legger meg +- kl 23

Stemmer i allefall godt med det jeg har lest til nå, bra svar og flott skissering for en mulig gjennomførelse Alltid bra med innspill fra noen som faktisk har prøvd det/tilsvarende med gode resultater

[Gjest Jester]

Ser gutta på elitefts.com og Mark Bell og gjengen på supertraining.tv snakker varmt om dette i allefall

[Vegard L]

Veldig interessant tema Eirich!

Det stemmer også overens med en del av teoriene til Kenn Hallstensen i boken Treningssuksess med lavkarbo. Å spise mye karbohydrater tett innpå trening medfører at du starter treningen med høye insulinnivåer. Det høye insulinnivået blokkerer tilgangen på energi fra fettvevet, noe som gjør at du raskere bruker opp glykogenlagrene, som ellers kunne bli spart til det var behov for det.

Ingesting carbs—most types of carbs—releases insulin, the body’s utmost signaler of growth. Insulin sensitivity is highest in the morning and, as it’s often understood, this means that cells of the body absorb carbs better in the morning than the evening.

Her får han ikke med at også annen type mat bidrar til insulinutskillelse. Jeg skrev nettopp en artikkel om det som kan leses her: Insulinindeks | Frisk og Funksjonell

Mtp insulinsensitivitet før og etter trening, så er det veldig logisk at etter trening er det beste tidspunktet på dagen for å spise større mengder karbohydrater. Likevel har jeg også erfart på egen kropp at jeg presterer best om jeg har spist karbohydrater før økten, men da helst minst 2-3 timer før økten starter.

Man kan også unngå den største insulinutskillelsen ved å innta litt lett absorberbare karbohydrater under/etter oppvarmingen. Siden du da er i aktivitet kan dette absorberes av muskelvevet uten at det produseres nevneverdige mengder insulin. Det samme gjelder også for inntak av sportsdrikk eller andre karbohydrater under aktivitet som f.eks. lengre løp.

I forhold til styrketrening ser jeg ikke behovet for å fylle på underveis i økten, med mindre du har veldig lange økter. Men om jeg ikke trener tidlig på dagen, så foretrekker jeg å spise karbohydrater før økten, men som sagt helst et par timer før. En banan eller lignende på vei til trening (går 20 min til trening) går også ofte ned.

Om jeg skal oppsummere dette kronglete formulerte innlegget, så tror jeg det man bør ta med seg fra disse teoriene er å ikke spise så mye karbohydrater tett opptil trening, og la mesteparten av karbohydratene komme i måltidene etter økten. Om du trener på kvelden, så ser jeg ikke hvorfor man ikke skal kunne regne frokosten og lunsjen som måltider "etter trening", og derfor også kan bruke disse til å fylle på glykogenlagrene.

[Vegard L]

Vil også legge til at dette støtter tankene om å spise mesteparten av dagens karbohydrater når insulinsensitiviteten er høyest. De dagene man ikke trener vil dette være på morningen. Så for de som ikke reduserer karbohydratinntaket vesentlig på fridager, så kan det muligens være lurt å legge karbohydratene hovedsakelig til frokost/lunsj, men dette tror jeg mest av alt handler om personlige preferanser

[Myr]

Vil også legge til at dette støtter tankene om å spise mesteparten av dagens karbohydrater når insulinsensitiviteten er høyest. De dagene man ikke trener vil dette være på morningen. Så for de som ikke reduserer karbohydratinntaket vesentlig på fridager, så kan det muligens være lurt å legge karbohydratene hovedsakelig til frokost/lunsj, men dette tror jeg mest av alt handler om personlige preferanser

Nå har jeg ikke satt meg mye inn i noe av dette, men karbs om morningen er vel veldig 2010? Biorytme, som har vist seg å være bedre for undertegnede og mange flere, handler jo grovt om prot + fett tidlig og karbs sent. Hva er dine tanker om det?

[FrkHoel]

Bra tråd!

Jeg kjenner meg veldig igjen i dette. Tidligere spiste jeg mye karbs tidlig på dagen og opplevde å være veldig trøtt på dagen og dårlig futt på trening.

Nå spiser jeg etter biorytmeprinsippene, og funker ekstremt bra på denne dietten. Mindre trøtt på dagtid, men energi på trening, til tross for at jeg ligger i underskudd, og jeg sover mye bedre om natta.

Jeg kommer absolutt til å fortsette med biorytmedietten

[Vegard L]

Nå har jeg ikke satt meg mye inn i noe av dette, men karbs om morningen er vel veldig 2010? Biorytme, som har vist seg å være bedre for undertegnede og mange flere, handler jo grovt om prot + fett tidlig og karbs sent. Hva er dine tanker om det?

Nå var dette først og fremst skrevet i kontekst av trådens tema, og i kontekst av en som ikke trener. Biorytme er helt klart en måte å spise på som fungerer for mange, men er vel foreløpig mest testet ut blant folk som trener. Men vil det være naturlig å legge opp kostholdet ulikt utifra om man trener på formiddagen eller om man har øktene sine sent på kvelden? Jeg tror det.

Personlig klarer jeg ikke å finne så fryktelig mange argumenter for hvorfor det ene skal være så mye bedre enn det andre, og vil konkludere forsiktig med at de ulike strategiene vil fungere for ulike folk basert på personlige preferanser.

Men i forhold til måltidstiming i forbindelse med trening er jeg ikke i tvil om at mesteparten av karbohydratene bør komme i etterkant av økten.

[Gjest Jester]

Tror også det er viktig, som vegard nevner å skille på "dietten" for en som trener hardt og mye og en som evt ikke trener i det hele tatt. Nå er denne carb back-loading, så langt jeg har fått lest virkelig rettet mot de som løfter mye da alt deles opp "pre/post workout" og ikke så mye etter døgnets timer.

Min hovedmotivasjon vil ikke være å "se bedre ut" men å prestere/yte bedre over tid, og evt som et resultat av det se bedre ut som en ren bonus. Jeg følte meg i allefall veldig truffet av det artikkelen sier om carbs rett før trening og ytelse.

Så jeg tenker litt som at om man klarer å følge det de dagene man trener, så er det ikke krise om man forskyver litt på fridagene, men det enkleste er jo bare å holde det samme på fridagene for rutinen sin del, selv om kanskje insulinmessig da vil være greiere å flytte det litt tidligere. Men her tror jeg effekten av å ikke bryte rutine er større en evt gevinst av karbs tidlig på treningsfri dager om vi tenker resultater over tid Det som er rutine er vanskelig å bryte da man ikke tenker igjennom det, så gode rutiner er gull

Update:

Non optimal workout times:

"You can back-load carbs, even if you lift in the morning, but it is sub-optimal. I explain how in the previous post. You may not be able to schedule your workouts for optimal gains, but we make do with what we have, we adapt and succeed, even if success comes in a slightly longer amount of time. If you want to whine, then there’s always Precision Nutrition, which is a good system, and there will be fruits and tossed salads for all."

[Mette M]

Tror også det er viktig, som vegard nevner å skille på "dietten" for en som trener hardt og mye og en som evt ikke trener i det hele tatt. Nå er denne carb back-loading, så langt jeg har fått lest virkelig rettet mot de som løfter mye da alt deles opp "pre/post workout" og ikke så mye etter døgnets timer.

Min hovedmotivasjon vil ikke være å "se bedre ut" men å prestere/yte bedre over tid, og evt som et resultat av det se bedre ut som en ren bonus. Jeg følte meg i allefall veldig truffet av det artikkelen sier om carbs rett før trening og ytelse.

Så jeg tenker litt som at om man klarer å følge det de dagene man trener, så er det ikke krise om man forskyver litt på fridagene, men det enkleste er jo bare å holde det samme på fridagene for rutinen sin del, selv om kanskje insulinmessig da vil være greiere å flytte det litt tidligere. Men her tror jeg effekten av å ikke bryte rutine er større en evt gevinst av karbs tidlig på treningsfri dager om vi tenker resultater over tid Det som er rutine er vanskelig å bryte da man ikke tenker igjennom det, så gode rutiner er gull

Etter det jeg har lest er carb back-loading minst like gull for fettprosenten som for ytelsen, så her har du muligheten til å få i både pose og sekk En av trenerne JC Deen snakket med hadde personlig erfart at han gikk ned i fettprosent ved å justere når han inntok karbohydratene på dagen, selv om han spiste samme mengde totalt med kalorier og karbs - denne typen sykluser og innvirkning på kroppen er i allefall noe jeg synes er uhyre interessant

I forhold til om det bør sees annerledes på om man trener sent på dagen er jeg faktisk uenig i dette også. Jeg trente alltid på ettermiddag/kveld da jeg gikk på skolen tidligere i år, og spiste også +- etter PF-tankegang. Da gikk det en del egg, fisk, cottage cheese og nøtter på dagtid, og igjen samlet jeg alle karbsene etter trening med unntak av littegrann frukt som ble inntatt som en liten kognitiv vekker de siste par timene i løpet av en 8 timers lang skoledag. Spiste da normalt 1200-1400 kcal før trening, og samme mengden etterpå (mellom kl 20 og 22).

Og jeg blir akkurat like daff av mye karbs tidlig på dagen på fridager/i ferier som ellers. Personlig prøver jeg å følge opp tidligere nevnte personer tankegang rundt at det også kan være en fordel og generelt spise ganske lite karbs på fridager, for å holde insulinsensitiviteten oppe så carb back-loading etter trening vil få enda større effekt Dvs litt "lavkarbo"-tankegang på fridager (tenker da ikke type ketogent, men kanskje 70-80-90 g for ei jente på min størrelse, mot 150-250 g på treningsdager).

[Gjest Jester]

Etter det jeg har lest er carb back-loading minst like gull for fettprosenten som for ytelsen, så her har du muligheten til å få i både pose og sekk En av trenerne JC Deen snakket med hadde personlig erfart at han gikk ned i fettprosent ved å justere når han inntok karbohydratene på dagen, selv om han spiste samme mengde totalt med kalorier og karbs - denne typen sykluser og innvirkning på kroppen er i allefall noe jeg synes er uhyre interessant

I forhold til om det bør sees annerledes på om man trener sent på dagen er jeg faktisk uenig i dette også. Jeg trente alltid på ettermiddag/kveld da jeg gikk på skolen tidligere i år, og spiste også +- etter PF-tankegang. Da gikk det en del egg, fisk, cottage cheese og nøtter på dagtid, og igjen samlet jeg alle karbsene etter trening med unntak av littegrann frukt som ble inntatt som en liten kognitiv vekker de siste par timene i løpet av en 8 timers lang skoledag. Spiste da normalt 1200-1400 kcal før trening, og samme mengden etterpå (mellom kl 20 og 22).

Og jeg blir akkurat like daff av mye karbs tidlig på dagen på fridager/i ferier som ellers. Personlig prøver jeg å følge opp tidligere nevnte personer tankegang rundt at det også kan være en fordel og generelt spise ganske lite karbs på fridager, for å holde insulinsensitiviteten oppe så carb back-loading etter trening vil få enda større effekt Dvs litt "lavkarbo"-tankegang på fridager (tenker da ikke type ketogent, men kanskje 70-80-90 g for ei jente på min størrelse, mot 150-250 g på treningsdager).

Det hørtes egentlig ut som en veldig grei måte å "få i pose og sekk på", nå trener jeg selv 5-6 dager i uka så blir å gjøre det samme hver dag, men jeg ser for meg at om jeg f.eks skal ha et opphold, ferie, eller av annen grunn ikke trene på noen dager så ville jeg kanskje back-loada carbs kvelden før dagen jeg skal trene. Men dette blir jo bare småpirk/detaljer i det lange løp, og til slutt opp til hver enkelt hva de liker. Grunnen til at jeg tror jeg ville gjort det er rett og slett at jeg blir muggen om jeg har lite piff på treninga, så det veier tyngre en fat loss

[Gjest Jester]

Litt videre om mekanismer bak dette bak han som blir kreditert i allefall som "carb back-loading" mannen, som skrev boken om det og som blir referert til av de store sterke der ute Jeg klippet ut mesteparten av artikkelen da det var litt pes med formateringen, men det er strengt tatt et svar på det forfatteren mener har vært uklart eller kommer feil ut i et intervju.

Har ikke fått lest hele enda, og er ikke så dreven at jeg vet om dette evt er bro-science eller? Vegard Lysne (sorry kompis at du får mye å gjøre ) Tar det også med da det står på siden som er brukt som kilde for hvor man får tak i boka:

http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/1733/hi-tech-nutrient-conversion-lessons-for-carb-back-loading/

Can the body convert excess protein into fat?

I thought I’d start here because this is the easiest one, and one I’ve actually seen in a real-life example. No, protein can’t be stored as fat. It’s almost impossible. My real-world example is John Andersen, a guy I spent a few hours talking with last night. At 6’ tall and 280 pounds, John is a shredded beast. His diet? Protein shakes, meat, eggs, a few veggies, and nuts. The vast majority of John’s calories come from protein, and he’s absolutely ripped.

The chemical side of it isn’t as exciting or captivating as seeing John’s results, but it’s worth mentioning all the same. From a biological standpoint, amino acids are very difficult to turn into fatty acids. Only two of the ketogenic amino acids possess a structure capable of forming a fat [1] (a good description of pathways is here), but as you might imagine from their name, they’re more likely to be converted into ketones, which the body clears almost completely through irreversible pathways, i.e. once ketones become metabolized, the chemical products cannot be converted back into energy substrates[2]. These aminos are leucine and lysine (although isoleucine, phenylalanine, threonine and tryptophan could, theoretically become ketones, but are more likely to convert through gluconeogenic pathways).

In contrast, the glucogenic aminos (just about all of them except leucine which is purely ketogenic) could become fatty acids by converting into glucose first through gluconeogenesis[3]. This is an inefficient process, and as I’ll explain below, glucose is also a poor substrate for fatty acid production.

The body Carb Back-Loading built? As it turns out…yes!

There’s one amino acid that’s worth pointing out as special: glutamine. In studies examining which materials are incorporated into stored fat, it was found that glutamine can contribute as much as 10 percent of the material[4]. Glutamine can be stored within fat cells as part of the lipid complex thus contributing to overall body-fat mass. This was discovered through radioactive marking of the glutamine molecules.

The end result? It almost doesn’t matter how much protein you consume over your daily needs. You won’t store it as body fat, unless, possibly, you ingest a shit-ton of glutamine. Even then, the mechanism (and full extent of storage) isn’t clear, but it clearly requires other raw materials, like carbs.

What about carbs to fat?

This question interests me far more, since many diet experts (including me) claim that carbs make us fat. I’m going to talk primarily about the two monosaccharides of interest: glucose and fructose.

Glucose does not convert easily into fatty acids, although both the liver and fat cells[4-15] will turn glucose into fat through a process called de novo lipogenesis. Even then, the total fat stored from glucose is a small percentage of ingested glucose, less than 5%[4, 11, 13], probably because the process is energetically expensive[20].

Fructose, in contrast, can contribute significantly to de novo lipogenesis when ingested in large quantities, unlike glucose—which has a rate-limited step in the liver preventing it from being stored (as glycogen or fat). Fructose can create unlimited byproducts that lead to the accumulation of fat[16-18]. The body regulates massive feedings with glucose and prevents glucose from sparking lipogenesis[19].

This, however, isn’t the whole story. Carbs can be stored in fat cells in two ways. One could be through the direct conversion of sugar molecules into fatty acids. As I said earlier, this happens, but at a slow rate. Even at a slow rate, it would contribute roughly a pound or more of pure body fat per year, depending on how much body fat you already possess. Where carbs contribute significantly and efficiently to fat storage is through conversion into glycerol complexes[4, 21-23].

Yet another way to finely tune Carb Back-Loading.

Remember, fat cells don’t just suck up fatty acids and hold onto them. They need to be bound together into triaglycerol (TAG) molecules, which are the body’s predominant form of stored energy (fat). This requires three fatty acid molecules and one glycerol. Glucose (and definitely fructose) can easily be converted into glycerol for the storage of more fat.

That’s why when cells are bathed in insulin, both lipoprotein lipase (which pulls fatty acids into cells)[24] and GLUT4 (which pulls glucose into cells) increase on the fat cell’s surface. To store all those fatty acids, the fat cells need glucose to bind the entire complex into TAG. That’s why studies have found that carbs can contribute between 40-70 percent of the stored material in fat cells[4]. And insulin—released in heavy doses when you eat most carbs—partitions more fat into storage than when you eat pure fat.

Glucose (carbs in general) is absolutely necessary for only two tasks: excessive glycogen storage, and excessive fat storage.

Be carefull what you overeat.

This is one reason low-fat diets that are predominantly carbs and protein can work for fat loss, although it’s a struggle for your body. At the same time you’re shutting down your body’s ability to mobilize fat, you’re not eating any—and your body needs fat for energy, tissue repair, and health. If you introduce fat into the mix, you store a great deal more than normal.

Protein, on the other hand, is quite a player. You can eat all you want, and you still won’t store it as body fat. Standing next to John Andersen brought this fact home. This guy eats relatively low-fat, massively high-protein, and less than 20 grams of carbs per day—and he’s done this, he says, for nearly seven years.

And guess what? He weighs 280 pounds, and there wasn’t an ounce of fat on him.

What about fat to glucose?

There are so many ways to classify fatty acids: essential and non-essential; saturated, unsaturated; trans- or cis-; short-, medium-, or long-chain; and so on. And I’m going to add one more into the mix, odd-chain and even-chain, which, for our discussion is critical.

Even chain fatty acids are those with an even number of carbon atoms on the backbone of the molecule. You’ll see them listed as C8:0, C22:5n3, C10:1n9 and so on. The breakdown in the nomenclature is simple. The ‘C’ means “carbon”, the first number is the number of carbon atoms (sometimes the C is omitted), the second after the colon is the number of unsaturated bonds (so, C8:0 is totally saturated and C22:5 has 5 unsaturated bond between carbons), and the last number after the ‘n’ gives the position of the first unsaturated bond when one exists, labeled from the terminal side of the fatty acid.

Odd-chain fatty acids, as you probably already figured out, have an odd number of carbons. Examples are pentadecanoic acid (C15:0) and heptadecanoic acid (C17:0).

Both of these can be used for oxidative processes. For the ECFAs, it has been stated for decades that the body cannot convert them to glucose[25], but recent observations (such that the brain can depend predominantly on ketones but must still have small amounts of glucose to function[26]), have led to demonstrations of metabolic pathways that could allow for a small amount of glucose production from ECFAs[27]. So it is possible, under states of starvation or heavily ketogenic diets (such as most of the week of Carb Nite) that EFCAs could contribute to glucose production.

OCFAs, on the other hand, we know convert easily into glucose. This is seen readily in animal and human studies where diets rich in even-chains lower blood glucose levels and allow a ketogenic metabolism to take over. An ultra-low carb diet that contains rich amounts of odd-chain fatty acids, however, allows the body to maintain blood glucose levels at the previous amount[28-31]. In other words, an ultra-low carb diet rich in OCFAs, is not ketogenic[31-33]; it’s not much different than a carb-based diet, metabolically that is.

Since animal fats do contain a certain amount of OCFAs (not usually more than 5% total[34]), it’s actually a good reason to eat animal sources for the ability of the OCFAs to supply the small amount of glucose needed for the brain while preserving protein retention.

Make Carb Back-Loading your bitch. This girl did.

The Lesson for Carb Back-loading

The moral of the story isn’t so easy as don’t eat carbs with fat, or make sure every meal is in the perfect zone, 40-30-30 (I can’t even remember what these numbers mean anymore). There is, however, a lesson for back loading your carbs, whether done on Carb Back-Loading or Carb Nite.

If the goal is absolute maximum fat loss, the back loads should be staged with the least amount of fat in the earlier meals and should be “fat back-loaded” during the refeed. Another way of saying this is that the lower-fat your meals are in the first part of the evening, the junkier they can be in the two hours before bed. Theoretically, it shouldn’t make a difference if your last meal of a carb refeed is zero fat or full of fat (Fruity Pebbles with skim milk vs. a whole pizza, respectively), you should wake up leaner and tighter than before. With a couple possible exceptions.

To break the ketogenic cycle, we should use as pure of glucose as possible. For example, immediately post training (or the first meal that breaks the ketogenic part of the diet), we should ingest primarily glucose (not sucrose and not honey, as it’s possible that the disaccharides can be more lipogenic than fructose alone[35]). The body fails to convert glucose into fat at any appreciable rate but we should probably avoid ingesting it with fast-acting fats (like MCT) as this has some potential to increase triglyceride storage.

Again, save the dirtiest treats—my favorites, like cherry turnovers—for the last meal because of the fat content wrapped up with the disaccharide sugar load. Although these may, theoretically, aid lipogenesis, the insulin load is worth the small amount that might be converted to fat or stored in fat cells.

Synopsis

I hope, if nothing else, this demonstrates how naïve it is to use universal qualifiers with macro-nutrients. Not all carbs act the same in the body; neither do all fats and neither do all proteins (although that’s another subject). The type you eat can make a massive difference. For example, simply assuming that any ultra-low carb diet is instantly ketogenic is false. Thinking you can’t gain fat if you eat only carbs, is absolutely false. The type, timing and combination with other nutrients is what matters, absolutely.

Referances:

1. Mitchell GA, Kassovska-Bratinova S, Boukaftane Y, Robert MF, Wang SP, Ashmarina L, Lambert M, Lapierre P, Potier E. Medical aspects of ketone body metabolism. Clin Invest Med. 1995 Jun;18(3):193-216.
   
2. Barton RN. The interconversion and disposal of ketone bodies in untreated and injured post-absorptive rats. Biochem J. 1973 Nov;136(3):531-43.
   
3. Schutz Y. Protein turnover, ureagenesis and gluconeogenesis. Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 2011 Mar;81(2-3):101-7.
   
4. Collins JM, Neville MJ, Pinnick KE, Hodson L, Ruyter B, van Dijk TH, Reijngoud DJ, Fielding MD, Frayn KN. De novo lipogenesis in the differentiating human adipocyte can provide all fatty acids necessary for maturation. J Lipid Res. 2011 Sep;52(9):1683-92.
   
5. Collins JM, Neville MJ, Hoppa MB, Frayn KN. De novo lipogenesis and stearoyl-CoA desaturase are coordinately regulated in the human adipocyte and protect against palmitate-induced cell injury. J Biol Chem. 2010 Feb 26;285(9):6044-52.
   
6. Wilke MS, French MA, Goh YK, Ryan EA, Jones PJ, Clandinin MT. Synthesis of specific fatty acids contributes to VLDL-triacylglycerol composition in humans with and without type 2 diabetes. Diabetologia. 2009 Aug;52(8):1628-37.
   
7. Roberts R, Hodson L, Dennis AL, Neville MJ, Humphreys SM, Harnden KE, Micklem KJ, Frayn KN. Markers of de novo lipogenesis in adipose tissue: associations with small adipocytes and insulin sensitivity in humans.Diabetologia. 2009 May;52(5):882-90.
   
8. Chong MF, Hodson L, Bickerton AS, Roberts R, Neville M, Karpe F, Frayn KN, Fielding BA. Parallel activation of de novo lipogenesis and stearoyl-CoA desaturase activity after 3 d of high-carbohydrate feeding. Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Apr;87(4):817-23.
   
9. Strawford A, Antelo F, Christiansen M, Hellerstein MK. Adipose tissue triglyceride turnover, de novo lipogenesis, and cell proliferation in humans measured with 2H2O. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Apr;286(4):E577-88.
   
10. Minehira K, Bettschart V, Vidal H, Vega N, Di Vetta V, Rey V, Schneiter P, Tappy L. Effect of carbohydrate overfeeding on whole body and adipose tissue metabolism in humans. Obes Res. 2003 Sep;11(9):1096-103.
    
11. Guo ZK, Cella LK, Baum C, Ravussin E, Schoeller DA. De novo lipogenesis in adipose tissue of lean and obese women: application of deuterated water and isotope ratio mass spectrometry. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000 Jul;24(7):932-7.
    
12. Hellerstein MK, Neese RA, Schwarz JM. Model for measuring absolute rates of hepatic de novo lipogenesis and reesterification of free fatty acids. Am J Physiol. 1993 Nov;265(5 Pt 1):E814-20.
    
13. Shrago E, Spennetta T. The carbon pathway for lipogenesis in isolated adipocytes from rat, guinea pig, and human adipose tissue. Am J Clin Nutr. 1976 May;29(5):540-5.
    
14. Bray GA. Lipogenesis in human adipose tissue: some effects of nibbling and gorging. J Clin Invest. 1972 Mar;51(3):537-48.
    
15. Mellati AM, Beck JC, Dupre J, Rubinstein D. Conversion of glucose to lipid by human adipose tissue in vitro. Metabolism. 1970 Nov;19(11):988-94.
    
16. Mayes PA. Intermediary metabolism of fructose. Am J Clin Nutr. 1993 Nov;58(5 Suppl):754S-765S.
    
17. Schwarz JM, Neese RA, Schakleton C, Hellerstein MK. De novo lipogenesis during fasting and oral fructose ingestion in lean and obese hyperinsulinemic subjects. Diabetes 1993;42(suppl):A39.
    
18. Schwarz J-M, Neese RA, Turner SM, Nguyen C, Hellerstein MK. Effect of fructose ingestion on glucose production (GP) and de novo lipogenesis (DNL) in normal and hyperinsulinemic obese humans. Diabetes 1994;43(suppl):52A.
    
19. Hellerstein MK, Schwarz JM, Neese RA. Regulation of hepatic de novo lipogenesis in humans. Annu Rev Nutr 1996;16:523–57.
    
20. Leitch CA, Jones PJH. Measurement of triglyceride synthesis in humans using deuterium oxide and isotope ratio mass spectrometry. Biol Mass Spectrom. 1991;20:392–6.
    
21. Goldrick RB, McLoughlin GM. Lipolysis and lipogenesis from glucose in human fat cells of different sizes. Effects of insulin, epinephrine, and theophylline. J Clin Invest. 1970 Jun;49(6):1213-23.
    
22. Maruhama Y. Conversion of ingested carbohydrate-14C into glycerol and fatty acids of serum triglyceride in patients with myocardial infarction. Metabolism. 1970 Dec;19(12):1085-93.
    
23. Barter PJ, Nestel PJ, Carroll KF. Precursors of plasma triglyceride fatty acid in humans. Effects of glucose consumption, clofibrate administration, and alcoholic fatty liver. Metabolism. 1972 Feb;21(2):117-24.
    
24. Zechner R, Kienesberger PC, Haemmerle G, Zimmermann R, Lass A. Adipose triglyceride lipase and the lipolytic catabolism of cellular fat stores. J Lipid Res. 2009 Jan;50(1):3-21.
    
25. de Figueiredo LF, Schuster S, Kaleta C, Fell DA. Can sugars be produced from fatty acids? A test case for pathway analysis tools. Bioinformatics. 2009 Jan 1;25(1):152-8.
    
26. Owen OE, Smalley KJ, D’Alessio DA, Mozzoli MA, Dawson EK. Protein, fat, and carbohydrate requirements during starvation: anaplerosis and cataplerosis. Am J Clin Nutr. 1998 Jul;68(1):12-34.
    
27. Kaleta C, de Figueiredo LF, Werner S, Guthke R, Ristow M, Schuster S. In silico evidence for gluconeogenesis from fatty acids in humans. PLoS Comput Biol. 2011 Jul;7(7):e1002116.
    
28. Anderson RL, Volpenhein RA. Carcass Deposition of Dietary Long-Chain Odd Carbon Fatty Acids by Rats and Their Effect on Plasma Glucose and Ketone Bodies During Starvation. J Nutr. 1979 Oct;109(10):1810-4.
    
29. Ekman L, Wretlind A, Moldawer L. New developments in lipid emulsions for parenteral nutrition. Infusionsther Klin Ernahr. 1987 Sep;14 Suppl 3:4-8.
    
30. Anderson RL, Boggs RW. Glucogenic and ketogenic capacities of lard, safflower oil, and triumdecanoin in fasting rats. J Nutr. 1975 Feb;105(2):185-9.
    
31. Pi-Sunyer FX. Resistance to ketosis during prolonged fasting by rats fed on a diet containing undecanoic acid, an odd-carbon-number fatty acid. Br J Nutr. 1976 Jan;35(1):41-6.
    
32. Kim S, Pi-Sunyer FX. Diminished ketosis and triglyceridemia during fasting in odd-carbon enriched pregnant rats. Endocrinology. 1977 Feb;100(2):373-9.
    
33. Pi-Sunyer FX, Conway JM, Lavau M, Campbell G, Eisenstein AB. Glucagon, insulin, and gluconeogenesis in fasted odd carbon fatty acid-enriched rats. Am J Physiol. 1976 Aug;231(2):366-9.
    
34. Tagliamonte B, Tomassi G. Fatty acids with an odd number of carbon atoms: metabolic and nutritional aspects. S TA NU. 1976 Jan-Feb;6(1):7-12. Review.
    
35. Thompson RG, Hayford JT, Hendrix JA. Triglyceride concentrations: the disaccharide effect. Science. 1979 Nov 16;206(4420):838-9.
    

[Gjest Jester]

From EliteFTS, Back Loading: Follow Up « Dangerously HardcoreDangerously Hardcore

En artikkel som følger opp den første:

Sometimes, trying to do the right thing and help, even though the help isn’t predicated on the principles laid forth in an article, is more trouble than it’s worth. The people who skim the article for words they recognize—like workout and carbs—who then read the comments don’t understand the key points, nor do they grasp the niceties. Helping by responding to the comments becomes a Catch-22. So, because of the I-know-more-than-anybody-because-I-read-a-book trolls, the next person asking how to back-load carbs if lifting in the morning will get the response, “You don’t.”

The troll says: I read a book, now I know everything and you stupid!

The point of the article, what I was trying to relay, what is new and goes against conventional wisdom is that many things cause changes to the body. Food is recognizably the single most versatile tool for manipulating the body from hormones to gene expression. Resistance training, I would argue, is second. To optimize for performance—performance here meaning strength, mass and fat loss—not only must diet change, but so must training, including the time of day. Laid out in four simple principles, the points I tried to make are:

1) If you’re a native born US citizen who’s 40 or younger, you should back-load your carbs whether you workout or sit on your ass all day (because America’s youth has been fed crap since infancy with some nasty epigenetic consequences).

2) If you have the flexibility to lift at any time of the day, lift sometime between 3 to 5pm to get maximum advantage from the circadian cycle of insulin sensitivity (more sensitive in the morning, less sensitive at night).

3) If you back-load properly and adjust your workout time to optimize, you can eat trash in the evening before bed and not worry about it—want a cup of rice before bed, do what everybody else does; want a box of cherry turnovers and a quart of ice cream, then back-load it.

4) If you cannot change your day around, then your next best option for mass is to eat carbs post workout, whenever that occurs, but still avoid carbs pre-workout (Precision Nutrition Style, a la Berardi).

And one point I didn’t address in the article

5) If your main goal is not mass gain, but preservation thereof while getting lean, then you should still back-load carbs with a slight modification.

The article was about back-loading your carbs through the day, and even ended with the hint that changing your diet and your schedule is part of the formula. Then people asked how they would back-load their carbs if they workout first thing in the morning, implying they should have post-workout carbs. And maybe I shouldn’t make that assumption, but I did. Well, this is kind of a no-brainer from the perspective of back-loading, isn’t it? Eating carbs first thing in the morning post-workout, nullifies the chance to back-load. Now let’s talk about back-loading carbs and lifting first thing in the morning.

The general belief about post workout carbs is that it’s the carbs that matter. They do, but they’re not the most important factor. It’s the spike in insulin levels. Insulin signals cells to shuttle all kinds of nutrients and building blocks across the cellular wall, not just glucose. Cholesterol depends on insulin to enter the cells of the body, as do amino acids. If trying to back-load carbs and lift in the morning, what’s needed is a way to spike insulin levels post-workout without eating carbs. Luckily, there is a way to do it.

So, that magical carb-free-insulin spike: casein hydrolysates and leucine. This mixture causes insulin spikes without the aid of carbohydrates. The Mag-10 and Anaconda formulas from Biotest® are both based on this combination. Protein Factory also sells pure casein and leucine. I recommend Protein Factory for cost and because of the ability to create custom blends of protein. About 10 grams of casein hydrolysate, 10 grams of leucine and 40 to 50 grams of a whey hydrolysate or isolate is excellent post-workout nutrition, causes an insulin spike, supplies all the necessary amino acids, promotes recovery and growth, all without carbs. Add coffee and creatine to the mix and there’s not much better that can be done after a morning workout without carbs. (Caution: hydrolysates taste like shit because of the massive amount of proline produced during the hydrolyzation process.)

Now, armed with adequate, carb-free post-workout recovery, you can still take advantage of back-loading carbs, stay strong and get ripped and still eat some trash before bed if you feel like it.

[Gjest Jester]

Og siste for nå som bygger videre på dette: Carb Back-Loading: The Final Follow Up « Dangerously HardcoreDangerously Hardcore

This another follow-up, the last I intend to devote to carb back-loading until the dust settles. So let me begin at the beginning…

Carb back-loading came right out of a black-ops nutrition plan that…wait a minute. That’s not right. This plan came about because some physicist who happened to lift weights was tired of being pudgy and happened to have one of the finest medical libraries in the world only a mile away from his house, and even after moving, continued reading the journals and applying the knowledge in the trenches—which, yes, is an important part of any scientific work. (I don’t know, that sounds like an okay creation story, but the black-ops thing is definitely more sexy. Oh well, the truth is what it is.)

With all that research, there should be a paper trail and there is, for which someone on Elite rightly asked to see. He was rude about it and some might argue imbecilic, but his point is valid. I should put my money where my mouth is.

The goal:

I actually understand this stuff…and love it!

Carb back-loading aims to allow a serious athlete, either recreational or professional, to maintain or increase strength and maintain or—depending how much excess fat they carry—increase muscle mass while losing body fat. Part of the goal, as it always should be, is time efficiency. There’s no reason to come up with a plan that takes so much time, life devolves into a constant cycle of eating, training, working and sleeping where, spare time is used for emergency bathroom breaks. By time efficient, I don’t mean easy, I only mean that we should get maximum results from the invested time.

The guiding research:

It is well known that low insulin levels, which occur in the absence of dietary carbohydrates, can accelerate the release of fatty acids, and increase fat burning (called lipolysis in the literature)1,2. This is true even during exercise3-19. Once carbs enter the diet during the day, even if for a single meal, fat burning is hampered for the entire rest of the day20.

There is also no disputing that insulin sensitivity is highest in the morning and early afternoon, and by evening, has hit its lowest point21-24. Studies also show that eating more food in the beginning of the day when sensitivity is high causes more muscle than fat to be lost during dieting, but that eating most of your calories in the evening causes the loss of body fat and the preservation of muscle25-28.

Considering only the above information, if one wants to burn fat, they would refrain from eating carbohydrates for as long as possible during the day and, if possible, not at all.

But there’s muscle to be built and if not built, then spared. Insulin is the ideal hormone to target to spare muscle mass, levels of which we can manipulate with carbs. Well, there’s a problem: we’re avoiding carbs. The alternative is hyperaminoacidemia, or keeping blood levels of amino acids high, particularly leucine29-31. Although I didn’t mention it as an integral part of carb back-loading, it is, just as it is essential for any diet, hypertrophy or strength program. Protein 2.0 has more details.

Yes, I do my homework.

Post-workout is also an important consideration for growth. The maximum amount of growth possible comes with consuming high amounts of fast-absorbing proteins and fast-absorbing carbs immediately post-workout32-38. Recent findings also show that muscle growth requires not just lots of calories, but lots of carbs39, 40. Ensuring that liver or muscle tissue absorbs most of these carbs would be a boon, as glycogen stores could be rapidly replenished. If the carbs replenish glycogen stores, there won’t be an excess that end up in fat cells where enzymes, most importantly fatty-acid synthase, will convert the carbon backbones of glucose into fatty acids, then to triglycerides for storage41-43.

Damn we’ve got some lofty goals and some nasty problems. Building muscle requires eating a lot of carbs, but eating a lot of carbs can increase body fat. I won’t even get into the nervous system inefficiencies that can be caused by attempting to regulate blood sugar manually, rather than letting the body reach homeostasis.

If we can avoid carbs during the most insulin-sensitive parts of the day, we can avoid fat accumulation, but we also lose insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue. And yes, I know, resistance training increases skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity44, 45, but it still fluctuates through the day. We would like muscles to be at their peak of glucose absorption when fat cells are at their nadir.

Luckily, the mechanism by which muscle cells absorb glucose is not only triggered by insulin. I’ve talked about them in past posts, those little chunks of protein that shuttle glucose through the cellular membrane. They are called GLUcose Transporters or GLUTs (glootz) for short. This fact is so basic, it nary warrants a citation, but I know someone will call me a liar before they check Wikipedia, so here46, 47.

The predominant GLUTs in muscle cells—GLUT-4, the same type as in fat cells—normally need insulin-stimulation to come to the surface of the cell where the transporters can start ferrying glucose into the nucleus for metabolism. This is called insulin-mediated translocation. Non-insulin-mediated translocation is when GLUT-4s come to the surface to do their thing without signaling from insulin. In a nut shell: GLUT-4s need to be present at the skeletal muscle cell surface for the cell to use glucose and there are two ways this is accomplished. One requires insulin.

No carbs before lifting? I can handle that.

The other, the one we can use to our advantage, requires resistance training. Contracting muscles under load causes GLUT-4 translocation in muscle tissue, independent of insulin action (an excellent review of the scientific literature is here48). So weight lifting has the same effect on GLUT-4s as insulin, which means we can make the muscles transport as much glucose during non-peak insulin-sensitivity hours (the evening) as during the morning. This is getting technical, but really, it means lifting makes your muscles absorb sugar whether there’s insulin or not, and whether your muscles are sensitive to it or not.

Now we have the final piece in place. We target muscle tissue to soak up sugar at an accelerated rate while fat cells struggle to do the same. Putting all the pieces together, we get optimal times to eat different nutrients (the basic concept of nutrient timing, which is at least 150 years old, and arguably 2 to 3000 years old), and an optimal time to resistance train—note “resistance train” and not just “workout”, like say cardio.

Putting it togheter:

The time of your workout is no longer a variable for optimum fat loss while potentiating the possibility of hypertrophy and strength: you must lift at the end of the early afternoon, completing your workout to coincide with the beginning of the lowest point of insulin sensitivity. For the average person living the 9-5 life, the workout should start somewhere from 3 to 5. Later is better than earlier. Let me emphasize again, start. Your workout should start between 3 to 5, and up to 6 is still near optimal—a workout from 5:30pm to 7pm is great and gives you plenty of time to load up on some carbs.

Now that workout time is no longer an option, I can safely say, “do not eat any carbs until workout time.” You can consume them during the workout if it will be abnormally intense, or you feel depleted from the day before (you didn’t get your glycogen reserves filled). Research teaches us that the body will not accumulate fat during the workout (no lipogenesis) even while consuming carbs.

After the workout, if not during, start loading carbs. The muscle tissue now has a high affinity for glucose, gobbling it up like a sponge, while fat cells can’t absorb much. And although lipogenesis is always hampered by weight lifting, the effect is short lived at about an hour or two50, 51 and we need to continue stuffing carbs down the pipe for the last several hours before sleep to replenish glycogen stores.

Non optimal workout times:

You can back-load carbs, even if you lift in the morning, but it is sub-optimal. I explain how in theprevious post. You may not be able to schedule your workouts for optimal gains, but we make do with what we have, we adapt and succeed, even if success comes in a slightly longer amount of time. If you want to whine, then there’s always Precision Nutrition, which is a good system, and there will be fruits and tossed salads for all.

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[Vegard L]

Wow, tok tid å lese gjennom alt, men det var definitivt verdt det!

Det jeg finner mest interessant her er teorien om å spise karbohydratene i den perioden muskelvevet er på sitt mest insulinsensitive og fettcellene er på sitt minst insulinsensitive, som er etter trening om kvelden. Likevel må det understrekes at selv om dette kan ha en effekt, så vil fremdeles det totale inntaket over tid avgjøre om man lagrer eller blir kvitt fett. Timing for å eventuelt optimalisere effektene av kostholdet tror jeg ikke er noe de fleste har noe utbytte av å tenke så mye på.

I artiklene nevnes det at man bør trene en gang mellom kl 15-18. Dette er det ikke alle som har mulighet til, og driver man med idrett har man gjerne faste treningstider å forholde seg til i tillegg, som gjerne ikke er på samme tid fra dag til dag engang (egen erfaring her ja). Kanskje har man også mer enn en økt om dagen, og hva gjør man da? Her vil jeg anse det som en nødvendighet å fylle på med karbohydrater etter den første økten.

Av denne grunn tror jeg fremdeles det viktigste å ta med seg fra disse teoriene er å ikke spise karbohydrater for tett opp til økten, og utnytte den økte insulinsensitiviteten treningen gir (evt evnen til å ta opp glukose uten insulin) ved å spise mesteparten av dagens karbohydrater i perioden etter trening. Om dette er på kvelden eller tidligere på dagen kommer i andre rekke, men personlig vil jeg tro dette er underordnet.

The general belief about post workout carbs is that it’s the carbs that matter. They do, but they’re not the most important factor. It’s the spike in insulin levels. Insulin signals cells to shuttle all kinds of nutrients and building blocks across the cellular wall, not just glucose. Cholesterol depends on insulin to enter the cells of the body, as do amino acids. If trying to back-load carbs and lift in the morning, what’s needed is a way to spike insulin levels post-workout without eating carbs. Luckily, there is a way to do it.

So, that magical carb-free-insulin spike: casein hydrolysates and leucine. This mixture causes insulin spikes without the aid of carbohydrates. The Mag-10 and Anaconda formulas from Biotest® are both based on this combination.

Det trenger ikke å være så komplisert at man trenger å kjøpe tilskudd for å unngå å spise karbohydrater. Enkelte proteinrike matvarer er vel så insulinogene som karbohydrater, og ved å f.eks. drikke melk eller spise kjøtt/fisk så vil man få en betydelig insulinproduksjon. Refererer til artikkelen min om insulinsensitivitet som jeg linket til i et innlegg lenger oppe, der jeg gikk gjennom de to studiene som har undersøkt insulinutskillelsen etter ulike matvarer/måltider.

[Gjest Jester]

Wow, tok tid å lese gjennom alt, men det var definitivt verdt det!

Det jeg finner mest interessant her er teorien om å spise karbohydratene i den perioden muskelvevet er på sitt mest insulinsensitive og fettcellene er på sitt minst insulinsensitive, som er etter trening om kvelden. Likevel må det understrekes at selv om dette kan ha en effekt, så vil fremdeles det totale inntaket over tid avgjøre om man lagrer eller blir kvitt fett. Timing for å eventuelt optimalisere effektene av kostholdet tror jeg ikke er noe de fleste har noe utbytte av å tenke så mye på.

I artiklene nevnes det at man bør trene en gang mellom kl 15-18. Dette er det ikke alle som har mulighet til, og driver man med idrett har man gjerne faste treningstider å forholde seg til i tillegg, som gjerne ikke er på samme tid fra dag til dag engang (egen erfaring her ja). Kanskje har man også mer enn en økt om dagen, og hva gjør man da? Her vil jeg anse det som en nødvendighet å fylle på med karbohydrater etter den første økten.

Av denne grunn tror jeg fremdeles det viktigste å ta med seg fra disse teoriene er å ikke spise karbohydrater for tett opp til økten, og utnytte den økte insulinsensitiviteten treningen gir (evt evnen til å ta opp glukose uten insulin) ved å spise mesteparten av dagens karbohydrater i perioden etter trening. Om dette er på kvelden eller tidligere på dagen kommer i andre rekke, men personlig vil jeg tro dette er underordnet.

Det trenger ikke å være så komplisert at man trenger å kjøpe tilskudd for å unngå å spise karbohydrater. Enkelte proteinrike matvarer er vel så insulinogene som karbohydrater, og ved å f.eks. drikke melk eller spise kjøtt/fisk så vil man få en betydelig insulinproduksjon. Refererer til artikkelen min om insulinsensitivitet som jeg linket til i et innlegg lenger oppe, der jeg gikk gjennom de to studiene som har undersøkt insulinutskillelsen etter ulike matvarer/måltider.

Skal sjekke artikkelen din i morgen, er bare oppe å fyller vannflaska å så i retning pc`en

Men må bare poengtere for andre lesere at det utdraget du dro fram her handlet om de som må trene tidlig på dagen og alikevell vil carb back-loade. Så for å fortsette "lavkarboen" utover dagen fram mot kvelden, men også få en spike etter trening uten karbs var det foreslått proteinpulver uten for mye karbo og BCAA, og som du legger til kan dette oppnås med enkelte proteinrike matvarer. Men som det understrekes, man kan fortsatt trene tidlig og back-loade, det er ikke optimalt, men langt ifra nyttesløst. Skal prøve dette selv og sette meg mer inn i det så får vi se, er ute etter hvordan jeg presterer på det,og i andre rekke kroppsfettet

[Vegard L]

Jepp, men for kroppsfettet sin del så vil alltid timing av næringsstoffer være underordnet det totale inntaket når alt kommer til alt.

I forbindelse med trening og mat rundt trening så må man alltid tilpasse til hele situasjonen, med antall økter, når på døgnet man trener, om man trener til samme eller ulik tid fra dag til dag osv.